shirtlifterbear: (Default)
shirtlifterbear ([personal profile] shirtlifterbear) wrote2011-04-03 03:14 pm

Evolving Perspective

WHAT I THOUGHT:

What I initially found most interesting about the backlash against the category of anti-homophobic bullying video I posted yesterday and the "It Gets Better" project videos, was that there was this undercurrent of well, bitterness-disguised-as-realism, as in:

"It doesn't get better, it didn't for me, so you better get a reality check here."

Um, really?

That's the message people wanted to send to young gay teens. No hope? No encouragement? Just "life's a bitch and then you become embittered?"

Time has passed, and my initial impression has changed.

WHAT I THINK NOW:

I believe that this Irish video actually represents the dramatic sea-change that has taken place in the past ten years in terms of homophobia and its societal acceptance. Yes, the world depicted in the video is a utopian "Big Eden", "In and Out" extreme, but it is not as far from reality as some would claim.

A few weeks ago, a drunken fan in the seats next to us at the Seattle Sounders game screamed "Faggot" at a player, and the entire seating section got quiet and very clearly Did Not Approve. He did not repeat the epithet for the rest of the game, nor has he in the subsequent three games I've attended.

I see a societal-norms trend that homophobia is now being classified as bigotry and is no longer acceptable on a community-standards basis, and that "Faggot" is in the process of going the way of "Nigger" in terms of disapprobation of its use.

So my position is now this:

"Criticize the encouraging videos all you want, but can you hold off doing so until the teens the campaign is directed at live long enough to understand your more-sophisticated position?"

Because really, if ONE kid believes it, that It Gets Better and doesn't kill himself, then the entire campaign is a success, and you want that too, right?

Right?

I'll put down some money right here that we will hear testimonials from kids starting in about two years about how they heard of the Youtube It Gets Better videos even way out in the sticks where they were growing up and being bullied, and that they clung to them like a lifeline. I'll even go so far as to bet you that at least ten kids will say that the campaign stopped them from killing themselves. I'll even give short odds. Any takers?

See?

It doesn't matter if the 99% of jaded youth goes "whatever" and cynics all over them, those kids are not the target demographic here. Too many of us grew up thinking we were the only people like ourselves in our small towns, and had no hope. The Kansasville, Wisconsin gay kid needs to see these messages of optimism as much as the budding lesbian in Pascagoula, Mississippi does.

Offer hope, people.

It's free.

[identity profile] timbearuk.livejournal.com 2011-04-03 10:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I have to say, my general feeling is - "America needs that kind of 'It gets better' campaign? Aren't they a bit backward?".

I'm not denigrating the videos from anywhere, nor the need to protect young people, and I'm not suggesting that things are perfect here or that there is no need for reinforcement of the message, merely pointing out that in the Western world it would appear to be largely an American problem.

For the most part, Europe has moved on from persecuting gays. OK some of the Eastern European states still have issues, ex-Russian states still have BIG problems, but the EU has laws which are being enforced, which is more than the USA has. Ireland has that video and it's own problems but they are locked into Catholicism so it's not surprising (although still alarming!), but hey, they seem to be stepping out of that paradigm ...

Please, catch up - I think that probably means voting the right people into power by the way :-) In ten years I think things will be very different in the USA, we were sort of where you were fifteen years ago, but then again we don't have the Westboro baptist church ...

[identity profile] shirtlifterbear.livejournal.com 2011-04-03 11:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you're right!

We need to catch up!

And to think that the It Gets Better campaign was started by our Seattle-local sex columnist, Dan Savage.

Who could have predicted that the President of the United States would tape a video saying that "It Gets Better" for gay kids?

[identity profile] shirtlifterbear.livejournal.com 2011-04-03 11:43 pm (UTC)(link)
After Hillary Clinton did one, both the President and then-Speaker Pelosi did one.

[identity profile] timbearuk.livejournal.com 2011-04-04 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Absolutely! It's great that it happened, but not so great that it needed to happen ...

[identity profile] joebehrsandiego.livejournal.com 2011-04-03 11:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Westboro is a sick sideshow. Please don't use it as a marker or template for judging any part of the U.S. outside of itself.

[identity profile] timbearuk.livejournal.com 2011-04-04 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Fair point.

[identity profile] cattycritic.livejournal.com 2011-04-05 03:20 am (UTC)(link)
this.

The only reason Westboro keeps going is because outlawing what they say so easily leads to outlawing political dissent, in fact there was a Supreme Court ruling on this very thing. I approve of this level of commitment to free speech. I'd rather we keep the cockroaches right where we can see 'em and keep calling them on the carpet.

[identity profile] fearless-son.livejournal.com 2011-04-06 03:53 am (UTC)(link)
Actually, The Slacktivist reminds me that there is a silver lining to all of Fred Phelps hate speech, and that is as long as he is legally permitted to say whatever the hell he wants about gays, then other people who take a theological stance against homosexuality have no argument to fall back on about gay rights infringing on their right to free speech.

They can make their excuses, about how being forced to recognize gay marriage somehow violates their right to believe that homosexuality is a sin against God, but as long as Phelps has his freedom of speech, you can just point to him and say, "He's still talking, your argument is hollow."

[identity profile] cattycritic.livejournal.com 2011-04-06 04:47 am (UTC)(link)
That is a very good point, thanks for that and the link.

[identity profile] fearless-son.livejournal.com 2011-04-04 12:03 am (UTC)(link)
Frankly, there are a lot of areas where I feel the United States would do well to take a cue from European nations on in terms of social issues like this as well as governmental and policy issues. Unfortunately, there is still some ridiculous concept of "American exceptionalism" that we have to fight down here, which makes such reforms all the more difficult.

This happens because there is a huge difference in cultural values between different states in the nation, and the way the national government has a "winner take all" structure tends to make it difficult to actually accomplish anything that large portions of the country will not oppose. Further, this tends to lead to U.S. politics being more about tribalism than about pragmatism or even ideology. Those states with shared culture tend to form voting blocks less out of a desire to legislate to ideology or self-benefit than out of a desire to screw over other American sub-cultures. The thing about homosexuality is that some of those cultures (specifically ones in which particular kinds of Christian churchs are the centers of community life) have latched onto homophobia as a battleground in this cultural war. Nothing tends to unit people like having a common enemy to oppose, and homosexuals are seen as a "safe" scapegoat for that because they are in the minority and it is easy to resist a particular "sin" that you have no interest in comitting yourself.

While this might slow down adopting more progressive legislation as concerns matters of sexual lifestyle, it also leaves itself vulnerable to a particular kind of attack, and that is acceptance. One of the reasons why I support the "It Gets Better" campaign targeted at teens is because it is an effective means of sharing that acceptance. While it may be targeted at homosexual teens, it carries its message beyond that particular demographic, as has the increasing presence of homosexuality in popular media. Data suggests that the younger generation, even in otherwise very homophobic American sub-cultures, has a vastly more positive impression of homosexuality than the older generation. As that younger generation grows up and increasingly starts to vote, the voting blocks that their parents have formed tends to break up, as they find more issues with which they disagree.

Eventually, the only people crying out against homosexuals will be a few old crackpots that no one listens to anymore and whom everyone would rather have shut up.

[identity profile] fingertrouble.livejournal.com 2011-04-04 03:26 am (UTC)(link)
Teen suicide and teen bullying is still an issue though - in the UK it's still what - 3 times more likely to have mental illness, 3/4 times more likely to attempt suicide?

Far from perfect.

[identity profile] timbearuk.livejournal.com 2011-04-04 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Indeed, like I say, we are far from perfect.

Yes, we need to catch up re: treatment of gays, but...

[identity profile] cattycritic.livejournal.com 2011-04-05 03:29 am (UTC)(link)
...in my observation, European bigotry is just as bad, just not toward gays. If even one Eurozone country elects a Romani head of state, I'll take it back. I've also found European men way more sexist than American men (straight ones anyway, I haven't known enough gay European men).

Both sides of the pond have tradeoffs. I've done plenty of traveling, I've had many European friends and coworkers, and frankly I think it's 6 of one and half dozen of the other between Europe and the US. So I don't really see the point of international one-upsmanship.

Re: Yes, we need to catch up re: treatment of gays, but...

[identity profile] timbearuk.livejournal.com 2011-04-05 10:29 am (UTC)(link)
Seriously it's not one-upmanship. If I were doing that I couldn't pick a worse subject that human rights as Britain has more skeletons in the closet on that front than you can shake a stick at.

It's merely an observation - the USA is about ten years behind the curve on gay rights, and I find that really odd.
Edited 2011-04-05 10:31 (UTC)

Re: Yes, we need to catch up re: treatment of gays, but...

[identity profile] cattycritic.livejournal.com 2011-04-05 05:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I see, thanks for clarifying. I explain it to myself this way: the US is big, actually quite diverse. Large parts of it are still traditionalist and agrarian (like where I grew up), and we are slow to move. But I think [livejournal.com profile] shirtlifterbear is right - there has been a sea change.

Where I grew up in Winston-Salem, NC, which admittedly is an island of blue in a sea of red, you could even describe as gay friendly, especially compared to 20 years ago. I was stunned at some of the progress my mother told me has happened on that front. As my sister put it, "wtf, did someone just run around whacking everyone with a clue bat?" It's also far more ethnically diverse and I think that typically helps open minds.